I think the House and Senate need some couples theropy. Both took action by more than 2:1 margins. Nobody is going to be singing, “Can you feel the love tonight”.
Smokers would no longer be able to light up inside restaurants, bars and casinos in Pennsylvania under a version of a statewide smoking ban the state House of Representatives passed Monday.The bill, however, differed from a smoking ban passed by the Senate three weeks ago, and the Senate voted 36-13 late Monday night to reject the House version.
Unless the two bodies can reach agreement before the legislative session ends, final passage would have to wait until at least the fall.
The House voted 141-62 to send its bill to the Senate after the fourth consecutive day of debate over how strict to make the smoking ban sought by Gov. Ed Rendell. The governor has included the ban in his ‘‘Prescription for Pennsylvania’‘ initiative aimed at lowering the cost of health care, broadening its availability and improving its quality.



People want this. Do it.
People want this. Do it. Do it now.
You folks in H’burg understand why people think you are a bunch of clowns?
Pilt
what do they want?
Do they want the ban on smoking or the couples theropy? Personally, I support both.
clowns
No, they are not clown just A** H***s.
Our cowardly Senate
Our unconscionable, cowardly, antediluvian PA Senate caved in to Big Interests. First, they gutted the bill banning smoking in workplaces by including innumerable exemptions to cater to Big Interests. The House then considered the Senate’s sham of a Clean Indoor Air Bill. The House rightfully removed almost all exemptions. Unfortunately, when the amended bill returned to the Senate for concurrence, the Senate rejected the amended bill. Since the Senate is recessing for its summer vacation, a committee of Senators and Representatives will be formed to try to reach a consensus in the fall. While our legislators enjoy their vacations, more and more folks will die due to second-hand smoke. This is what I think of our spineless legislators: @#$%^&*())_+
I agree second hand smoke
I agree second hand smoke may cause problems. When I smoked I didn’t do it in my home or at work, I went outside. That being said if tobacco is that dangerous why is it legal? I don’t see a problem with the owner of a bar or restaurant setting up an area to cater to their smoking clientelle as long as there is no risk to the non-smokers. A separate area with smoke filters works fine. Many establishments already have done this.
With the current law it is either the government’s way or the highway. That isn’t right either. The most idiotic part of the smoking ban is the ban in cigar stores. Come on who else goes into those places except smokers. The anti-smoking fanatics need to apply a little common sense.
legal
Hey, get with it, it’s legal because to many politicans are making money from it. Same as everything else.
anti- smoking
anti- smoking fanatics
Firstly we are not fanatics. I make a living playing in bars. The smoke is horrific. I should not be punished and put my health at risk becuase people want to smoke. there is no where in publis anymore where people smoke. They should be use to this, you cant smoke in moview theatres or in an office setting why should a resteraunt, bare or casino be any different. I do not want to die young in terrible pain because someone has to smoke in public.
I hope you understand I dont care what they do to themselves whe nthey are alone but others shouldnt be put at risk. You wouldnt let a drunk drive in a school yard during recess. so why can they try to kill me at work.
No Smoking
I agree that this needs to be past. I do not smoke. I hate it when I go out for the evening to get a few drinks or just to shoot pool and have to go home and smell like a smoke stack. It doesn’t stop there, I get back in the car the next day and have to deal with it again. There are multiple other states that pasted laws banning smoking and as long as it is done across the board and no places are exempt then the business will not feel any side effects. The problem will be if you cannot smoke in your normal local bar but the private club down the road you are. This will cause a large business shift for smokers. That is the problem with the exemptions trying to past. Make it a clean sweep and ban it all together and save the lives of us that choose not to smoke for our own health.
Owner's Choice
The choice should be left up to the owner of the establishment, then the patrons can decide where they want to spend their time. We have too many laws on books the way it is. United States of America, remember freedom of choice and all that. I am a non-smoker and I despise second hand smoke so I make it a point to avoid places where I know people will be smoking. What about the person that wants to go out for a couple of drinks, shoot some pool and smoke a cig or two. They have rights too. Most places have some sort of non-smoking policy or a designated smoking area and they seem to work just fine. This smoking ban issue usually comes up when the establishment in question is a bar or night-club, places that are traditionally smoking environments. I will admit I don’t have the perfect solution, but I know there are more important on which our legislators need to focus.
Yes
Yes you are so right!!!!!
I think you miss the
I think you miss the point…YOU have a choice! And that’s what the USA used to be about, choice! If you don’t like smoke, go somewhere else. Why should ‘freedom of choice’ need to be legislated?
I don’t smoke but I won’t infringe on someone’s right to. And yes, I used the word ‘right’ because as long as this is still called the USA and we still pretend to abide by a Constitution then everyone has the right to persue those things that make them happy and no one is infringing on the rights of anyone else when they’re smoking in a public place. If you don’t like it, go elsewhere and spend your money. I’m sure that if it’s really what the PEOPLE want the proprieter will get the message…
Freedom of choice
Leave it to the business owner if he/she wants to allow smoking in their bar/rest. The vast majority of alcohol drinkers also smoke cig’s. Dont believe me? Go to your local bar and do a survey! This is a backdoor attempt to kill off bars! Bad Legislation – go away and mind your own business! Get to work on lowering our taxes and cutting spending!
Let it be
Beside the point made that this is an attempt to kill of bars, I agree with all your sound points, especially wanting some work done towards lower taxes and decreased spending.
(action by communication)
This is absurd no one wants
This is absurd no one wants to get rid of bars or resteraunts. Smoking is dangerous and employees including myself shouldnt be put at risk for lung cancer, allergies, emphazema and birthdefects. you cant smoke when you go grocery shopping or to the movies or the mall. I drink and I dont smoke. you are making assumptions. Do you know that about 60% of population does not smoke. do you know how many people will eat in a resteraunt where no one is smoking? I will not eat anywhere people are smoking cause it is disgusting . It will not hurt bars in the long run it statistically has been proven state after state.
Freedom Of Choice
I agree….I am a smoker, but know many non-smokers that will have a cigarette or two when they go out for a couple of drinks….Why should the smokers lose our rights? Some places have already made their establishments non-smoking, so utilize those if you don’t want to be around the smoke. I no longer go to eat anywhere that is non-smoking so why can’t the non-smokers do the same with establishments that are smoking permitted. Next people will say that we can’t wear a certain type of clothing because it offends them. What is next? What if we tried to tell the hunters they couldn’t bear arms? Same concept. Any innocent could get killed by an accident with the gun. It should be up to the business owner if they want to make the establishment non-smoking.
Please, wake up!
Why do you act like it is your right to affect other peoples health. There are already laws that say how much you can drink, when bars need to close, etc. Why do act like it is your right. Times change. When we discovered that chemical and industrial plants were polluting the air, did they complain “we have rights to pollute and harm people”. NO, they were regulated and if you didn’t follow the rules, you were gone. No that they have realized that 2nd hand smoke is dangerous, there will be laws to protect us. If you smoke, you already don’t care about yourself, why would we expect you to care about others!
U are right!!!!!!
The USA is turning into a communist country!!!!!!!!
Be careful what you wish for
I can speak first hand as to how misguided this law is. The NJ smoking ban literally bankrupted and closed hundreds of privately owned bars and restaurants. Revenue is down by double digits across the board on the ones that did survive. The law hasn’t caused people to stop smoking, but it has caused them to stay home more often and that if killing the bar and restaurant trade, especially with cold weather coming. The NJ casino’s have lost hundreds of millions of dollars of business. Do you know where it went? To your casinos where there are no smoking laws. If you ban smoking do you know what happens? You too will lose millions and millions of revenue for your property tax relief. Regardless of your feelings on smoking, a wide ranging ban will adversely affect both smoker and non alike. The facts speak for themselves. Use your head, people.
baaaaaaaaaaaaa
I have lived in cal. Oregon and now Hawaii which has the most severe smoking laws. In all three states it did not hurt business in the least. What you are saying is a bunch of bull.
Why are you making up lies.
Why are you making up lies. That is not true it has not hurt bars as a matter of fact after the first 3 months business increased by 28%
That is a fact. You are assuming and guessing, where did you get your statistics. Go on line or check with your local borough and you will find you are wrong.
Stop spreading fake rumours because you are a smoker.
smoking ban
Misguided? I don’t think so. Something isn’t right about this statement. Boston banned smoking long ago and no on went bankrupt there. As a matter of fact business picked up!
Lies
You are full of it. I witnessed first hand in Vermont the change when the smoking ban was passed there. Businesses picked up immensely. I’m sure it was the same in NJ. Families like mine do not want to subject their children to smoke while eating out and my husband and I certainly do not want to smell like a smoke stack after going out for a drink, to play pool or go bowling. This state is so backwards and I can’t wait for the change so that I do not have to keep driving over to NJ.
Just more FUD
It’s not novel to attack the ban from an economic perspective, but it’s predictable. Save your breath. The ban will pass eventually. The writing is on the wall.
Companies are beginning to stop hiring smokers, and insurance companies are hiking premiums on smokers, or dropping coverage on them.
We’ll all be better off for it.
Yes
Right!!!!! Stop all Tobacco Pennsylvania!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Smoking Ban
I think the lawmakers are pushing this bill under the rug. I think this ban is good for all. As far as NJ losing business from the smoking ban there that is just a bunch of hoowwie. In fla they passed a bill such as this and the business in rest and bars has increased. Just check it out. WE NEED THIS BILL PASSED NOW...
smoking ban
yes, this ban will be good for all. I can’t go to a pub or many restaurants because smoke gives me lung infections. I’d like to go out with friends and have a good time but I can’t. People, will live longer. If someone wants to smoke go outside! I want to live to be a ripe old age, don’t you? Look at the money you will save!
tobacco money too strong
I agree but someone should take a look at how much money the tobacco company blows into our state capitol, it stinks as much as stale cigarette smoke.
you are right
Politicans are getting rich from it and always have. The same as booze (look at the Kennedy Family) but I still drink.
Ban smoking now - get it done
To the politicians in Pa. please pass a smoking ban in pa especially include banning smoking in work places and all public places. No exceptions,the smokers can smoke outside.Non-smokers have rights too. By not banning smoking it is inhibiting non-smokers to live a healthier life.
No Smoking
I own a Restaurant/Bar and I want the Legislation
to pass immediatly. I go home coughing every night
from second hand smoke. I also owned a Restaurant
in New York State when the law passed there. Besides
the grumbling from smokers, business was not affected. Please, I beg you to PASS the law.
If you own the bar, you can
If you own the bar, you can make it non-smoking right away. You don’t need a law. Go ahead, see if it stays open when people have other choices
My lungs want to move back to NY!
My family and I moved to PA from NY 4 years ago to improve our lifestyle. While the move has had many of the benfits we hoped for – better school, lower taxes, more wide open spaces, less crowding – our lungs wish we would move back to NY! I miss being able to go out with friends and have a few drinks without feeling like I’ve been rolling in an ashtray. My asthmatic lungs force me to stay in when I’d rather take my family to the family-run Italian restaurant up the street (not that I’d expose my healthy kids to that kind of air poluution anyway). Bars and restaurants in NY quickly realized all the money they were missing from the people who weren’t eating/drinking at their establishments because of the smoke, and the bars and restaurants of PA will realize the same thing once this ban passes. Those who claim that restaurants and bars will lose money over this ban are just lying, it hasn’t happened in any location that has enacted a ban. PLEASE PA – catch up with the rest of the country and protect our lungs from this air pollution!!!
I Agree
I completely agree with you. We moved from PA to Syracuse NY for five years and we were so happy to be able to go out without dealing with smoke! We lived in NY at the start of the new law and everyone cried about possibly losing patrons…like you said business was better than ever and the hardcore smokers went outside.
Now we’re back in Berks County PA and it’s once again our nightlife is limited (I’m an ex-smoker, who like many cannot tolerate smoke at all once I finally quit). So what is the deal in PA?
health care costs
To begin with this is what It’s all about lowering health care costs. Now that’s a joke my health care has increased every year for the last 5years for a total increase of an extra 200.00 a month my prescriptions co-pays have increased 150%. Now your going to lower that I think not it’s all political B.S! And to the fanatics against smoking if you work in a place there’s smoking and you don’t like it find another job! I was in the service and we fight for freedom and why in Gods name does everyone want to take those freedoms away. And if your wondering I’m A NonSmoker.So there!
Smoking ban is simple...
In the end, it’s a public safety issue. The powers that be understood that they needed to do something about smokestack pollution in Pittsburgh 50 years ago. Their ground-breaking “renaissance” literally helped clear the air and make the city a much more livable place.
Fast forward. From where I sit, smoking is nothing more or less than a form of pollution, except in this case, it is perpetrated upon fellow citizens on a one-on-one basis. And I don’t think those people have any more right to pollute than does a major manufacturer.
Unlike drinking, (another popular vice!) smoking DOES effect others in its proximity. Drinking does not. (I’ll grant you the downside of auto related fatalities)
So the bottom line is that we, as a society, have a moral obligation to set this straight. To move forward. To, basically, grow up!
We know how harmful smoking is. We know it has absolutely no redeeming social value and I for one think that the social movement against it is quite remarkable. It actually makes me proud.
It’s time to get this done in our backward state. With all the millions businesses spend trying to convince people to relocate to PA, it’s stuff like this that hurts our image….just like the brown skies of Pittsburgh did before David Lawrence decided to kick some butt!
Piltdown Man
Not So Simple
Come on Pilt, you know this is no simple issue. I am a non-smoker and I agree that smoking is pollution and has “no redeeming social value.” I just make it a point to avoid those places that are likely to be smoke filled. I just can’t see forcing smokers to change their habit because I’m in the room. As individuals we need to decide for ourselves where to eat, drink, and/or shoot pool. (I don’t why, but shooting pool seems to be a major factor in this discussion). My biggest problem with all this is that we might not know where to draw the line. I fear a law laden society dictating everything we can and cannot do. I am in favor af banning assualt rifles, and look how well that worked out.
In a civilized society
In a civilized society there are activities or habits, if you will, that are morally unacceptable and require no laws. These activities are varied and they are many. And there are those that break or ignore these natural barriers and are cut from the herd. There are other activities that require laws to control. Traffic, banking, land and home ownership etc. Smoking in public places is one of those activities that directly affects those that are not smoking and should fall in that category of morally unacceptable. Why? Simply because it affects the health of other members of the community, it creates an uncomfortable situation for all those in the area and a single smoker can cause the environment of many people to become contaminated. It goes without saying that mastubation in a restaurant would be socially unacceptable. Why? Because it adversly affects all those around a single person. I don’t believe in an overload of laws, but the morally unacceptability of damaging the health of those not participating in the cause seems to have passed over those that refuse to not smoke around others forcing the passing of a law to protect society. Society must protect the majority, not the masturbator.
Nice
Very well put. I for one do not want the gov’t making laws to tell me what to do or not do. That is not the function of the government and when we allow them to do that we are in grave danger.
Do your homework
You need to do your homework and actually read the studies that have been done on second hand smoke. Have you ever heard the Surgeon General quote a particular study and it’s findings? Never has. Always talks in generalities. The EPA and others have pulled some stunts, which a court caught and stopped, when trying to manipulate the statistics of studies when they just didn’t show the correlation between second-hand smoke and health issues. Just take a few minutes and read.
Isn’t it enough that
Isn’t it enough that smoke stinks, burns your eyes, makes your clothes smell horrible, makes a mess with ash trays, butts and ashes etc. If there is no proof that second hand smoke will kill you, should the rest of society be forced to suffer under the pleasure of a few.
Indeed. Restaurants are for
Indeed. Restaurants are for eating and bars are for drinking. Those that must smoke can surely hold off for a few hours while they do either of the above activities. I do believe the passage of a smoking ban is not going to hurt any bar or restaurant for the simple reason that no one is going to stop drinking or eating if they can’t smoke. Alcohol and pork chops will win out over smoking anytime. Now isn’t that a delightful portrait of our population.
JP
Get real
Why should smokers have to ‘hold off’ for a few hours? If your health is really what you’re concerned about why are you in that bar week after week? Restaurants and bars are free to go smoke free, as many have, and then everyone has a choice as to where they go. Let us the American public decide, not the politicians. This isn’t the last thing they the gov’t will control, so sooner or later it will be something you enjoy.
The American public can’t
The American public can’t decide a God Damn thing. Remember it was the American public that elected Bush…..........twice!!!
I agree
to a point. The fact is that there are people who smoke, and who like to hang out and drink with other people who smoke at bars. In a Free and Civilized society, there should be choice. If I as a bar owner, want to cater to those that smoke, I should be able to open a smoker’s bar – stating clearly that smoking is allowed, and that if you do not smoke, you do not have to come in. That’s fair.
-C
That really is what all
That really is what all this should boil down to. The right to display “the rules” of particular establishments in regard to smoking I believe would be acceptable to most people, myself included. There is something about offering a choice to an adult population and allowing the individual to make his/her choice whether to enter or not. After all, that is what the whole of America stands for. It would certainly simplify things. You make an excellent point, but just between you and me, you know there would be those (in light of recent events concerning the NY governor) that would scream for private sex clubs or private prostitution clubs. Their argument would be we are offering a choice, but that is where the necessary laws come in to play.
JP
Home of the Free and the Brave?
What is happening to My Country? The Country I served, ready to give my life for in the Military. What’s happening to the Constitution? Why are so many so Hell bent about restricting the very freedoms we say we’re all about? Millions in prison – many for simply using drugs. We’ve got our priorities all messed up. Gun violence is raging in our City – and it’s not about drugs – they’re just the symptom – it’s about commerce, control and money. We have to come to grips that every problem does not require that we ‘Wage A War’ against it. It might just require tolerance, knowledge, and understanding, and a helping hand once in a while – not a foot in the face while the less fortunate of us is down.
If drugs were legalized, and controlled – like cigarettes and alcohol – the gun violence would subside, and the prison population would diminish, and we would realize that these substances are awful, addictive wreckers of our lives, and that we should find ways to help those afflicted and teach our children the dangers of them – not point our crooked fingers in disdain and hate.
But then again, how would we fund our covert ops?
How do you control smething
How do you control smething that is making millions, no billions, for those that traffic. Simply because that US wants to control drugs doesn’t mean everything will be fine. All those that make their fortunes in drugs are not going to share with the US government. And how do you limit the use of drugs down to an “acceptable” level? If restricting drugs is possible, than do it now. Why would legalization change that? The most powerful weapon we have against drugs is education and that must start in the home and on the playground. The source of drugs must also be addressed, but it is difficult since most come from outside the US where control is basically nonexistant. A good example of hitting the source is the Allied war plan in Europe during WWII. Germany was bombing the hell out of London and had the most mechanized army in the field. Rather than wait in London and try to shoot down bombers or stand in a defensive line and try to stop a division of Tiger tanks, the Allies went to the source and bombed the very plants that produced the armaments that made the German army so powerful. It took time, but in the end destroying Berlin’s production capabilities is what won the war. Destroying the drug production capabilities coupled with education in the streets is key to solving the drug problem. Whatever all this had to do with banning smoking is beyond me.
JP
Smoking ban
Philadelphia did it and there way behind the rest of the county . Tell me whats wrong with the guys in H’burg, It’s A no braner
dont ban smoking
It’s terrible and unfair to smokers. They should have seperate areas like how it used to be. Little by little the things we like to do are being taken away a little bit at a time so people wont notice. It’s not right to treat smokers like second class citizens. It was the same way in the 60’s. Blacks were seperated from whites. No smokers are being seperated from non-smokers. It is wrong. Making people stand outside in the rain to smoke is wrong. I honestly dont know who comes up with these ideas. They banned smoking in the casinos here you can only smoke in certain areas. The place is still smoky and everyone ignores the ban. People smoke where they want and nobody seems to care. Everyone is fine with it and I never saw one person complain. They obviously didnt vote for this. It just isnt right people need to smoke and making them go outside in bad weather just because they need to smoke makes those people feel like theyre not equal to everyone else. Non-smokers dont understand how much smokers need to smoke. It is as hard to quit smoking as it is to quit heroin and when you need to smoke and cant, you get terrible chest pains, you cant breathe, think or concentrate and your heart beats faster and some people are actually brought to tears. It’s not so terrible for someone to smoke around you, Im sure it wouldnt be the first time someone smoked around you and Im sure it wont be the last.
What a bunch of ridiculous excuses....
First of all, I was a smoker for about 7 years. So I will being this by saying I cannot be hypocrytical about smokers. What I am here to say is that I also sing professionally and perfom in the Central Pa area. You know what my voice feels like after a 3 hour show? It feels like I have smoked about 3 packs. Is that fair to me? Someone who is trying to make a career with my voice to have to endure your second hand smoke and others because you say it’s unfair to go outside? I am originally from Staten Island NY. I don’t hear ANYONE complaining there about the smoking ban. In fact, all of my friends and family that do smoke say that it is nice to not have all the smoke. So basically what they are saying as smokers, is that second hand smoke ALSO BOTHERS THEM. I don’t care if you smoke. Smoke until you are blue in the face. But if you are gonna sit there and make excuses about how it is hard to quit and your chest hurts and you turn blue, well than you know what….YOU SMOKE TO MUCH!! I quit cold turkey and it wasn’t easy, but it comes down to a choice. Obviously, your the weak, and cannot quit this horrible obsession that is smoking. I have family that have died from lung cancer, watched my grandfather fight for air the last two months of his life. And you know what he said to me… “ Anthony don’t smoke “ The stats show that business’s are propsering after the smoking ban was passed, and as far as bar, rest. clubs etc…MORE PEOPLE DRINK THAN SMOKE. You think that people in a state with a smoking ban are just gonna stop coming to a bar because they can’t smoke? well than that means they won’t drink either. And I bet if you ask someone who’s thirsty(cause you need to drink to stay alive!) they are gonna walk into that bar, sit down, and have a drink whether they can smoke or not. I’m not gonna have my daughter endure all the smoke from you, because you say it’s unfair to go outside in bad weather. How many bad weather days do we have in a year? I’ll just throw out a number…40. So are you out and about all 40 of those bad weather days and in places where there would be a smoking ban? I highly doubt it. This isn’t abotu segragation, this isn’t about civil rights, this is about the quality of life. Why should I have to endure your second hand smoke? And why should everyone else? You wanna smoke….than set your head on fire and do a dance, cause it’s not gonna be around me. PASS THE FREAKIN’ LAW ALREADY!!! THIS STATE IS A JOKE!
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